trrosen
Mar 18, 09:16 AM
Will never happen. The contract you signed with AT&T specifically says the required data plan cannot be tethered without an additional fee. You agreed not to do it, they have every right to punish those that break the contract.
I'm thinking the only proper response to someone violating a contract is to end the contract. (that is cut off your service) I don't think AT&T has a legal standing to say OK you broke our contract so we're going to unilaterally enter you into a new contract.
PS Something for all you "ITS MY DEVICE" people to remember. If you bought it on contract it's not your device until the contract has been fulfilled. Until then the sale is not complete and the Phone is AT&T's.
I'm thinking the only proper response to someone violating a contract is to end the contract. (that is cut off your service) I don't think AT&T has a legal standing to say OK you broke our contract so we're going to unilaterally enter you into a new contract.
PS Something for all you "ITS MY DEVICE" people to remember. If you bought it on contract it's not your device until the contract has been fulfilled. Until then the sale is not complete and the Phone is AT&T's.
R.Perez
Mar 13, 05:07 PM
You know not a good solution and batteries go bad.
That being said I might as well give a better answer to Night than batteries. That is we can store the heat energy from the sun to make it threw the night and already do it. Most large solar arrayes used for power reflect the light onto a centeral point and make a heat engine that boils water and turns it to steam that goes threw a turbine to provided power.
Now that energy can be stored and I believe we do it by heating up salt to a liquid form and used that to move the heat to boil the water into steam. We store the liquid salt over night.
Now I will say that solar is no were close to as effience as coal or gas power planets and their theorical max is by far lower.
Stop harping on that post and ignoring my other one. I was just making a point that the poster with his obnoxious argument about "night" was ignoring. I already posted a very viable technology that could solve this problem. Look a few posts up and you'll find it. next time, read the whole thread
That being said I might as well give a better answer to Night than batteries. That is we can store the heat energy from the sun to make it threw the night and already do it. Most large solar arrayes used for power reflect the light onto a centeral point and make a heat engine that boils water and turns it to steam that goes threw a turbine to provided power.
Now that energy can be stored and I believe we do it by heating up salt to a liquid form and used that to move the heat to boil the water into steam. We store the liquid salt over night.
Now I will say that solar is no were close to as effience as coal or gas power planets and their theorical max is by far lower.
Stop harping on that post and ignoring my other one. I was just making a point that the poster with his obnoxious argument about "night" was ignoring. I already posted a very viable technology that could solve this problem. Look a few posts up and you'll find it. next time, read the whole thread
manic
Jul 12, 12:42 PM
1. Integrated graphics [MB] vs dedicated gpu [MBP].
2. Built in expansion card slot.
[everyone I see seems to either have or plans to get those internet service cards through their mobile phone service providers].
Just those 2 things make the MB and MBP sooo different, that customers walk the line ALL the time on whether or not they can "get buy" with "just" a MacBook.
If you meant that the MB and MBP are similar in processing power ONLY, then yes. Other than that, they are VERY different.
Plus, a lot of people want the larger 15" screen. Just as many as those that want the more mobile 13". Again, VERY big differences.
I totally agree, dude. I think theyre entirely different beasts. I was just trying to make a point that keeping yonahs in macbooks just to make the mbp look like a sounder deal doesnt make business sense to apple and that well likely see meroms in MB still this year.
2. Built in expansion card slot.
[everyone I see seems to either have or plans to get those internet service cards through their mobile phone service providers].
Just those 2 things make the MB and MBP sooo different, that customers walk the line ALL the time on whether or not they can "get buy" with "just" a MacBook.
If you meant that the MB and MBP are similar in processing power ONLY, then yes. Other than that, they are VERY different.
Plus, a lot of people want the larger 15" screen. Just as many as those that want the more mobile 13". Again, VERY big differences.
I totally agree, dude. I think theyre entirely different beasts. I was just trying to make a point that keeping yonahs in macbooks just to make the mbp look like a sounder deal doesnt make business sense to apple and that well likely see meroms in MB still this year.
ct2k7
Apr 24, 06:30 PM
I lived for 5 years in Saudi Arabia. And yes, the above pretty much sums up their version of Islam. And, the only allowed religion is Islam, and if you live there women must dress and act appropriately, to include western women. It is a screwed up culture, but so be it.
Maybe because it's their country?
I definitely got the opposite impression when I was there a few years ago... People looked like they were having fun.
Maybe because it's their country?
I definitely got the opposite impression when I was there a few years ago... People looked like they were having fun.
samcraig
Mar 18, 09:40 AM
Ignorance of the law and/or terms of the contract does not equal being vindicated.
Good luck with that. There's really nothing else for me to add. If you want to rant, post and have your go at a lawsuit - go for it. Have fun. Just don't expect to win.
PS - just because you keep stating things as fact doesn't make it fact. Good luck with that too.
Good luck with that. There's really nothing else for me to add. If you want to rant, post and have your go at a lawsuit - go for it. Have fun. Just don't expect to win.
PS - just because you keep stating things as fact doesn't make it fact. Good luck with that too.
dethmaShine
May 2, 04:15 PM
Its not a myth, we've interviewed hackers after conviction, they have no interest in pursuing Macs due to the numbers. To get a really good and useful bot net you'd need roughly 25% of the entire user base!!!!
these guys deal in tens of millions!
Such a load of crap that is.
'we've interviewed hackers after conviction'
:rolleyes:
these guys deal in tens of millions!
Such a load of crap that is.
'we've interviewed hackers after conviction'
:rolleyes:
braddouglass
Apr 10, 04:25 PM
If you are happy with windows stick with it. if you don't "have" to switch because you need a specifitc application, just don't do it. It's not "THAT MUCH" better as everyone wants to make you believe. I still like to use my macbook though ;)
You might not like the lack of customization, the need to drag and drop to move files (most cases), windows resizing, the dock, finder in general, graphics performance, lack of games, lack of professional software other than audio/video etc... the list goes on...
So.. You can customize a mac pro just as much as any PC. There are plenty of games for mac, the good ones anyways. and they run them beautifully if your machine is equipped for it. and the gfx cards are good you just have to get a mac with a good gfx card. you cant buy a low end mac and expect it to run everything at HQ settings, nor a windows. There is tons of pro software but it is a little spendy, but what software isn't?
You might not like the lack of customization, the need to drag and drop to move files (most cases), windows resizing, the dock, finder in general, graphics performance, lack of games, lack of professional software other than audio/video etc... the list goes on...
So.. You can customize a mac pro just as much as any PC. There are plenty of games for mac, the good ones anyways. and they run them beautifully if your machine is equipped for it. and the gfx cards are good you just have to get a mac with a good gfx card. you cant buy a low end mac and expect it to run everything at HQ settings, nor a windows. There is tons of pro software but it is a little spendy, but what software isn't?
citizenzen
Mar 14, 07:34 PM
The equation has to be considered in its entirety.
Did they attack your reading comprehension skills too?
The meanies. :(
Did they attack your reading comprehension skills too?
The meanies. :(
dudemac
Mar 20, 05:41 AM
It's not "law," it's law. You live in a country, I presume? That means you're bound to the laws of your government, whether you find them morally sound or not. If you don't agree with the laws, renounce your citizenship and start your own community. It's great that you have morals and that they drive you to an understanding of what is acceptable, but your morality does not place you above the law. Law is a common morality imposed to preserve order and protect rights. It's not perfect all the time, but neither is human reasoning (including morality). People cannot make decisions based on their personal beliefs and just what they can do, as this causes the strong to dominate the weak. Basic social theory. Law and governance serve to protect rights and to act as a guardian against actions that harm others. Acting based on the Will to Power will divide the strong from the weak, causing even greater "division" among people. The same reasoning you use for your position can be used against your position--the common logical fallacy of ignorance.
Do not confuse your personal beliefs with supremacy over the law. If you know the law, know the consequences of breaking the law, and still choose to do so, that's your decision as an individual. You might not think that it was wrong to do what you did, but correctness is not solely up to you. We do not live in a Nietzschean world, and if the government finds you in violation of laws, you must face the consequences. This software is wrong because it breaks laws and furthermore is used to gain something to which you are not entitled (which is wrong, even without the multiple laws saying so).
People will do what they choose, whether it's right or wrong. Doing the right thing is easy enough. But if it's wrong, they'll attempt to rationalize until they arrive at a way for them to believe it was right, or they'll justify the decision based on a series of other evils/corruptions to cloak the decision in a grey area. Neither changes the reality or frees you from the consequences or potential consequences.
The first part of you statement is not a very intelligent one. If you believe a law to be immoral or against the freedom of the people then it is your duty especially in this country to stand up against it, not cower away and create a separate place to dwell. If everyone took your stance then when major changes need to happen to our laws people would have gathered together to leave the country instead of trying to work and fix the problem and raise awareness of the problem. There are many issues that fall under this and for what seems a rather well reasoned argument it fails because of this. So ignoring your first statement, you are correct in stating that laws are used to keep order in society and they should serve the interest and rights of the people. As soon as the laws no longer server this purpose there will be tyranny. Freedom of the people should be the most important thing. If you look at your life today and ask the question am I really free, the answer might scare you. Just look how much control is exerted over you life before you even get to make one decision. And when this control is coming from corporate interests it makes you wonder why and how people let this happen. Corporate wellness should never super seed the well being of the the people or trample the freedom of the people. As soon as you take away the ability to protest and to sometimes break the laws to effect change you have crippled society. And this kind of thinking starts "real" wars.
As for does this break laws, yes, but to better understand it is more like speeding than say a conspiracy to pirate music. It has been said many times that you still have to pay for the music, you just get something that is free of control. Now if you where running a p2p out of you house or directly selling it this might be a problem(but it would be no different than doing this with ripped CD's). However most of us just want to be able to play this on non apple players. Or in my case at work where I can not log into my account.
Do not confuse your personal beliefs with supremacy over the law. If you know the law, know the consequences of breaking the law, and still choose to do so, that's your decision as an individual. You might not think that it was wrong to do what you did, but correctness is not solely up to you. We do not live in a Nietzschean world, and if the government finds you in violation of laws, you must face the consequences. This software is wrong because it breaks laws and furthermore is used to gain something to which you are not entitled (which is wrong, even without the multiple laws saying so).
People will do what they choose, whether it's right or wrong. Doing the right thing is easy enough. But if it's wrong, they'll attempt to rationalize until they arrive at a way for them to believe it was right, or they'll justify the decision based on a series of other evils/corruptions to cloak the decision in a grey area. Neither changes the reality or frees you from the consequences or potential consequences.
The first part of you statement is not a very intelligent one. If you believe a law to be immoral or against the freedom of the people then it is your duty especially in this country to stand up against it, not cower away and create a separate place to dwell. If everyone took your stance then when major changes need to happen to our laws people would have gathered together to leave the country instead of trying to work and fix the problem and raise awareness of the problem. There are many issues that fall under this and for what seems a rather well reasoned argument it fails because of this. So ignoring your first statement, you are correct in stating that laws are used to keep order in society and they should serve the interest and rights of the people. As soon as the laws no longer server this purpose there will be tyranny. Freedom of the people should be the most important thing. If you look at your life today and ask the question am I really free, the answer might scare you. Just look how much control is exerted over you life before you even get to make one decision. And when this control is coming from corporate interests it makes you wonder why and how people let this happen. Corporate wellness should never super seed the well being of the the people or trample the freedom of the people. As soon as you take away the ability to protest and to sometimes break the laws to effect change you have crippled society. And this kind of thinking starts "real" wars.
As for does this break laws, yes, but to better understand it is more like speeding than say a conspiracy to pirate music. It has been said many times that you still have to pay for the music, you just get something that is free of control. Now if you where running a p2p out of you house or directly selling it this might be a problem(but it would be no different than doing this with ripped CD's). However most of us just want to be able to play this on non apple players. Or in my case at work where I can not log into my account.
zwida
Oct 25, 10:26 PM
OK. I know that many of my apps aren't going to take advantage of this level of multithreaded power, but I can't help but get excited by this development. After so many years of sluggish improvement, it feels like we're in the midst of rapid (and radical) change.
I'm hoping that the 8-core, 3.0 (or faster) GHz MacPro arrives the same day as Leopard and about the same time as CS3. I'd gladly swap my 2.66 GHz quad core...:)
I'm hoping that the 8-core, 3.0 (or faster) GHz MacPro arrives the same day as Leopard and about the same time as CS3. I'd gladly swap my 2.66 GHz quad core...:)
Little Giant
Oct 8, 08:42 AM
"The iPhone is limited to 1 device whereas the Android is spanned over many more devices and will continue to branch out."
That is exactly the weakness of the PC platform. It turns into a zoo where the monkeys and lions roam free and the people have to live in cages... :rolleyes:
That is exactly the weakness of the PC platform. It turns into a zoo where the monkeys and lions roam free and the people have to live in cages... :rolleyes:
Ino
Sep 20, 01:57 AM
It sounds like it will not have HDMI or TiVo features, and it will play movies out of iTunes, which screams to me that it will only play .mp4 and .m4v files much like my 5G iPod.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4561/picture1jq2.png
But it sure looks better than it sounds...;)
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4561/picture1jq2.png
But it sure looks better than it sounds...;)
AlBDamned
Aug 30, 11:38 AM
From Cult of Mac's blog (http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/) on the issue:
I have now had the chance to read through Greenpeace's "Guide to Greener Electronics," and there are a few things that should be clarified about where Apple ranks.
First of all, the article I linked this morning claimed that Apple and Lenovo were at the bottom of the charts. Well, that's not true. Lenovo scored an appalling 1.3 out of 10 while Apple pulled a marginally more successful 2.7 out of 10. In between were Motorola and Acer.
The criticisms of Apple are fair, I would say, though I think there's some nuance to what HP is doing with recycling that tends to make it look unfavorably better than others. Why? Ink cartridges and printers. HP has a lot more to take back than any other company, so their commitment to percentage of sales taken back is actually a possibility.
Given that Apple actually offers free computer recycling with the purchase of a computer, something that Dell does but HP does not, it's odd to say they're doing less to keep computers out of the waste stream. On the other hand, Apple has no takeback goals, so it really does balance out.
The other criticisms of Apple are on target, however. The company is secretive, and that meets they tend to be secretive about their environmental planning as well. They have a regulated substances list, but it isn't public. They're committed to eliminating PVCs, but won't say when. Ditto for BFRs.
It's not necessarily that Apple's environmental record is legitimately bad, but they do a very poor job of informing their customers about their environmental efforts. Silence is suspicious here, folks.
I have now had the chance to read through Greenpeace's "Guide to Greener Electronics," and there are a few things that should be clarified about where Apple ranks.
First of all, the article I linked this morning claimed that Apple and Lenovo were at the bottom of the charts. Well, that's not true. Lenovo scored an appalling 1.3 out of 10 while Apple pulled a marginally more successful 2.7 out of 10. In between were Motorola and Acer.
The criticisms of Apple are fair, I would say, though I think there's some nuance to what HP is doing with recycling that tends to make it look unfavorably better than others. Why? Ink cartridges and printers. HP has a lot more to take back than any other company, so their commitment to percentage of sales taken back is actually a possibility.
Given that Apple actually offers free computer recycling with the purchase of a computer, something that Dell does but HP does not, it's odd to say they're doing less to keep computers out of the waste stream. On the other hand, Apple has no takeback goals, so it really does balance out.
The other criticisms of Apple are on target, however. The company is secretive, and that meets they tend to be secretive about their environmental planning as well. They have a regulated substances list, but it isn't public. They're committed to eliminating PVCs, but won't say when. Ditto for BFRs.
It's not necessarily that Apple's environmental record is legitimately bad, but they do a very poor job of informing their customers about their environmental efforts. Silence is suspicious here, folks.
*LTD*
Apr 10, 11:22 AM
Epic is garbage and their engine is garbage.
Six of one, a half dozen of the other.
Big name is big name.
And yeah, really garbage. :rolleyes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games
Pretty impressive, I'd say. But it won't just be Epic. Others are and will follow. Rest assured.
Six of one, a half dozen of the other.
Big name is big name.
And yeah, really garbage. :rolleyes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games
Pretty impressive, I'd say. But it won't just be Epic. Others are and will follow. Rest assured.
iStudentUK
Apr 24, 11:36 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)
People don't like the idea of no longer existing, and religion solves that.
Plus, it is a way to control people. A very effective one! That's why it is still here today in the age of science. Religion has been refined over thousands of years to make sure it keeps itself going and keeps people believing without question.
This book says there is an invisible man in the sky who made the earth. We know this because the invisible man wrote the book. He listens to you but doesn't answer. If you do as he says you go to a wonderful afterlife, but if you don't you go to a horrible one.
People don't like the idea of no longer existing, and religion solves that.
Plus, it is a way to control people. A very effective one! That's why it is still here today in the age of science. Religion has been refined over thousands of years to make sure it keeps itself going and keeps people believing without question.
This book says there is an invisible man in the sky who made the earth. We know this because the invisible man wrote the book. He listens to you but doesn't answer. If you do as he says you go to a wonderful afterlife, but if you don't you go to a horrible one.
gugy
Sep 12, 03:28 PM
This is the same thing as having a mac mini connected to your TV...though I guess it has HDMI. This leads me to believe that they will release a Software Update for Front Row upon release of the "iTV".
Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...
I think Apple had to compromise to be able to get TV shows on itunes pledging not to have a pvr to networks.
Elgato is here and they are good, so it's just a matter to buy it and use it to stream videos to your TV via ITV.
Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...
I think Apple had to compromise to be able to get TV shows on itunes pledging not to have a pvr to networks.
Elgato is here and they are good, so it's just a matter to buy it and use it to stream videos to your TV via ITV.
balamw
Apr 6, 08:59 AM
I am not a "switcher" per se, but I did spend 15 years using Microsoft OSes as my main OS from DOS all the way to Windows Vista. A lot of that time spent as a Windows evangelist. Today, all my Macs also run XP (for the 2006 iMac) or W7 for the newer boxes and I also own a Windows Home Server and a generic W7 desktop (though I specced it so it can run OS X via Kakewalk trivially should I ever want it to).
OS X generally strikes a better balance for me than Windows. The default settings are good enough. I don't have a laundry list of things I have to tweak on a new system as I do on Windows. (Like making file extensions visible in Explorer).
I came back to the Mac near the end of the PPC era. Vista was a miserable transition for me. My first upgrade went terribly and when I got it installed performance was atrocious. SP1 made that better. The fairly radical changes from XP about where settings were to be located, etc... also drove me to consider alternatives. If I have to learn all this stuff again, why don't I learn it on a Mac?
Watching long term XP users when they first look at Vista or W7, I often see that same look of bewilderment as they have when they look at a Mac for the first time. Even though there is a lot that is the same, there is so much that seems fundamentally different.
After years of custom building, tweaking and maintaining my computers, I finally had enough. I just want to use the darned thing, and Macs offer a tremendous out of box integrated experience. For me, iTunes was the gateway drug. When I finally gave in to letting iTunes be iTunes on my Windows box and let it manage my music, I realized how simple it could be. This led me to my first iPod and then to the iBook.
The integrated hardware/software experience is a big part of the appeal of a Mac and all Apple products. You won't get this from a video or a post in a thread like this.
I remember shocking my colleagues at work when we needed an 8 core box and I went to the Apple Store, walked out with a Mac Pro in less than 15 minutes, and had it fully functional with my MATLAB code utilizing all 8 cores in less than half an hour from unboxing. By that point our usual Dells would still be over in IT getting updates, tweaks, etc..
I've replied to several of your threads, and have a request of you which I think is an important one in these questions.
What do you DO with your Windows box. What applications are important to you? What is your typical workflow?
This is a big one for seeing if a Mac will fit you or not and where you might find the biggest stumbling blocks.
B
OS X generally strikes a better balance for me than Windows. The default settings are good enough. I don't have a laundry list of things I have to tweak on a new system as I do on Windows. (Like making file extensions visible in Explorer).
I came back to the Mac near the end of the PPC era. Vista was a miserable transition for me. My first upgrade went terribly and when I got it installed performance was atrocious. SP1 made that better. The fairly radical changes from XP about where settings were to be located, etc... also drove me to consider alternatives. If I have to learn all this stuff again, why don't I learn it on a Mac?
Watching long term XP users when they first look at Vista or W7, I often see that same look of bewilderment as they have when they look at a Mac for the first time. Even though there is a lot that is the same, there is so much that seems fundamentally different.
After years of custom building, tweaking and maintaining my computers, I finally had enough. I just want to use the darned thing, and Macs offer a tremendous out of box integrated experience. For me, iTunes was the gateway drug. When I finally gave in to letting iTunes be iTunes on my Windows box and let it manage my music, I realized how simple it could be. This led me to my first iPod and then to the iBook.
The integrated hardware/software experience is a big part of the appeal of a Mac and all Apple products. You won't get this from a video or a post in a thread like this.
I remember shocking my colleagues at work when we needed an 8 core box and I went to the Apple Store, walked out with a Mac Pro in less than 15 minutes, and had it fully functional with my MATLAB code utilizing all 8 cores in less than half an hour from unboxing. By that point our usual Dells would still be over in IT getting updates, tweaks, etc..
I've replied to several of your threads, and have a request of you which I think is an important one in these questions.
What do you DO with your Windows box. What applications are important to you? What is your typical workflow?
This is a big one for seeing if a Mac will fit you or not and where you might find the biggest stumbling blocks.
B
Watabou
May 2, 10:58 AM
That's why I use Firefox with NoScript installed. :)
jmadlena
Oct 7, 01:51 PM
Android is gonna take iPhone TO THE GROUND!
It's not a part of your system.
EDIT:
generally speaking, a company that only makes software (google) has higher profit margins compared to a company that makes hardware and software..(apple)
I don't see how Google, who licenses Android for free, has a higher profit margin than Apple, who sells the hardware (at a price), and the software (at a price to iPod touch users). I think Apple has higher margins in that aspect.
Google might have indirect revenue sources due to manufacturers licensing Android (ads, etc), but I don't believe there is any direct revenue. I stand to be corrected.
It's not a part of your system.
EDIT:
generally speaking, a company that only makes software (google) has higher profit margins compared to a company that makes hardware and software..(apple)
I don't see how Google, who licenses Android for free, has a higher profit margin than Apple, who sells the hardware (at a price), and the software (at a price to iPod touch users). I think Apple has higher margins in that aspect.
Google might have indirect revenue sources due to manufacturers licensing Android (ads, etc), but I don't believe there is any direct revenue. I stand to be corrected.
Panther
Mar 18, 02:26 PM
Note: This application has been untested by this site, and Apple will likely take steps to prevent future usage.iTMS just used web service interfaces and XML over HTTP... It will be interesting to see just how they could stop an app from accessing.
What is more likely is that the iTMS servers would add in the DRM and buyer metadata before it gets downloaded. Its actually a little shocking that it wasn't designed to do that in the first place!
What is more likely is that the iTMS servers would add in the DRM and buyer metadata before it gets downloaded. Its actually a little shocking that it wasn't designed to do that in the first place!
Bill McEnaney
Mar 26, 12:41 PM
I agree with you, brother. God bless you.
Is est a subcribo of contradictio frater
Is est a subcribo of contradictio frater
.Andy
Apr 24, 11:29 PM
The ACT test is like the SAT but for the middle of America. I got 36* and literally only studied the day before.
*weight my arguments posted on the Internet accordingly.
*weight my arguments posted on the Internet accordingly.
skunk
Mar 24, 07:14 PM
"When they express their moral beliefs or beliefs about human nature ... they are stigmatised, and worse -- they are vilified, and prosecuted.
"These attacks are violations of fundamental human rights and cannot be justified under any circumstances," Tomasi said. Great description of their own behaviour, justified by a 2,500-year-old book of revisionist history. Anyway, what exactly was the relationship between David and Jonathan?
"These attacks are violations of fundamental human rights and cannot be justified under any circumstances," Tomasi said. Great description of their own behaviour, justified by a 2,500-year-old book of revisionist history. Anyway, what exactly was the relationship between David and Jonathan?
flopticalcube
Apr 24, 01:42 PM
umm, everything? Did you read the bit I quoted from you?
And you then go on to explain how this doesn't exist in a church which is neither fundamentalist nor Protestant. I'm still at odds as to what point you are trying to make?
And you then go on to explain how this doesn't exist in a church which is neither fundamentalist nor Protestant. I'm still at odds as to what point you are trying to make?
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